Fox News "The Story with Martha MacCallum" - Transcript: Interview with Marianne Williamson

Interview

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MACCALLUM: So, here now exclusively, 2020 presidential candidate Marianne Williamson. Marianne, thank you. I know the weather is crazy out there and you've been traveling a lot. So, thank you so much. It's great, great to have you with us.

WILLIAMSON: Thank you for having me.

MACCALLUM: You know, we started off the program tonight showing the president's visit to El Paso and to Dayton. Do you think that it was the right thing for him to go to those two places as president?

WILLIAMSON: Well, of course. That's I think part of the job of the presidency, and I think it would have been wrong of him not to go.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. Yes, I mean, there's a lot of discussion that, you know, the protesters -- there was Representative Escobar came out and said, you know, I spoke with people in the hospital, no one wants him here.

The mayor of Dayton came out and said, you know, people don't want him here. You know, as president, it would be -- if he didn't go, the criticism would be that he didn't go. Right?

WILLIAMSON: Well, I was not aware. I knew that there were voices that did not want him to go. But I didn't know that the mayor's had actually asked him not to go. So, that is relevant --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well, she -- just to clarify, the mayor said he could come. They had, I guess a good conversation on the phone when all of this happened. But she's been quite critical of him since then.

When you look at some of the other candidates who are running for the Democratic nomination along with you, they were very outspoken today. Sort of -- one of the major themes was that they believe that the president is fanning the flames of white supremacy and that there's a direct link between the act that we saw in El Paso, at least.

Because we know that in Dayton, that killer supported -- and you know, another candidate, Democratic candidate, they are drawing a direct link between the president and this white supremacy movement. Do you think that's fair?

WILLIAMSON: I think there are two different things. Fanning the flames is different than a direct link. Do I feel he's fanned the flames? Absolutely. Do I think there's a direct link? No.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: How so? Tell me how.

WILLIAMSON: He has from the beginning of his candidacy. From the day he walked down the elevator talking about Mexicans the way he did, he has talked very disparagingly of people.

Now, let's be very clear here. To me, this should not be a right-left issue, it should not be a Democratic or Republican issue. He has spoken in a way George Bush would not have, neither George Bush would have.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: He's a totally different person.

WILLIAMSON: He's a totally different person, but my point is that this criticism is not based on his politics. This criticism is based on the way he speaks about fellow American. So, absolutely, I believe that he has found the flames of some of the worst aspects of the American character. That is not, however, to say there's a direct link. That would be unfair.

MACCALLUM: OK. This is -- you know, I think that the supporters of the president would say that he is blunt, that he is not as -- you know, sort of not as elegant in his speech, as some of the people that you mentioned - - prior presidents.

But that his motivation has been pretty clear in terms of wanting to make the border a place where you can come through legally but not illegally. Here is -- here is what he said when he was asked about that this morning. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think illegal immigration is a terrible thing for this country. I think you have to come in legally. Ideally, you have to come in through merit. We need people coming in because we have many companies coming into our country. They are pouring in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What do you disagree with in that statement?

WILLIAMSON: I don't disagree with anything that he made in that statement, and I don't disagree with anything that he said in his speech, which was quite beautiful. The problem is how often his words and his actions have not been the same as statements that he just made.

Legal immigration, you know, I heard your former guest talk about how lefties want open borders. No, we don't. I think that a place where there is a reasonable consensus on both left and right is that we want legal immigration. So what is --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: That's what the president wants.

WILLIAMSON: That's what he just said. But when you look at some of his actual policies, there were many of us who have found them extraordinarily.

MACCALLUM: Like what policy?

WILLIAMSON: Such a separation at the -- at the -- at the border of parents from children.

MACCALLUM: I mean, we saw that under the Obama administration as well.

WILLIAMSON: No, we didn't see anything like what he has done as stated policy.

MACCALLUM: Look, we did. I mean, you know, even some of the pictures that were used by the media were pictures that were dated back to the Obama administration. I think that it's correct that it's there are more of them now because what's happened is we've seen a flood of people coming across the border with children.

In some cases they're not even they're own. And some cases they've grabbed the wrist of a child and brought that child in.

WILLIAMSON: That's all the more reason why you don't just separate the child from the adult because we have -- we have agency --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: In some cases, you're helping the child by separating them because that child has no connection to that family in some cases.

WILLIAMSON: But we have -- we have trained -- we have trained agents within our police agencies at the border who know how to vet that, who know how to ask the questions of the child than the adult. So, you need -- you need that agent there with the child and the adult to ask the kind of questions that would actually let them know for sure.

Also, the president closing so many of the point -- that ports of entry. So, actually, yes, there are those of us who feel that we have very legitimate points --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: They are pouring through the ports of entry and they're being housed, and they're not close. The ports of entry are not closed.

WILLIAMSON: He has closed some of them, he absolutely has. And he -- and this flooding as you -- the pouring through is because of humanitarian crisis in Guatemala, in Honduras, in El Salvador, and traditionally Americans cared. Traditionally, when there -- when there's a huge humanitarian crisis somewhere and people are coming because they're in such desperate circumstances, traditionally American policy -- immigration policy has been -- you know, give me your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, kind of where we've been there in the past.

MACCALLUM: You're right. Legally.

WILLIAMSON: Of course, legally. But there are ways --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But you say, of course, legally, but people are coming through illegally.

WILLIAMSON: And yet we are making --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Hundreds of thousands of them in months.

WILLIAMSON: And all that -- that's all the more reason why we need more agents.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: So, do you think he should just let them through?

WILLIAMSON: No, I did not say that. Please don't (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: OK. So, all right. I don't want you. What would you do?

WILLIAMSON: OK. So, I'll be (INAUDIBLE)

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: So, there all those people come to the border, and --

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WILLIAMSON: We definitely need more agents, we definitely need more ports of -- ports of entry that are open. We definitely need more technology, we need -- we definitely need more ways to handle.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: All those things that you just mentioned are all in the president's -- and what he is wanted to do.

WILLIAMSON: But the president, it's not about some of the things that he has said that he has wanted to do. The problem is with many of the things that the president has already done.

I do not agree with you, and I don't think facts bear out that the kind of stated policy of separating children from their parents in such a cruel way which --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Nobody likes -- I don't -- I don't think anybody -- I agree with you. I mean that that's not something that anybody want to see.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMSON: And it has continued. Hundreds of these cases have been reported since he said he was stopping them.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But the reason that is happening -- Right. So -- I want to move on to some other issues.

WILLIAMSON: OK.

MACCALLUM: But if you were president, you know, what -- how would you get both sides to come together because I think there's a lot of Americans in this country who are in the middle on this issue and think that there are reasonable solutions? And even the president has said, you know, let's get Democrats and Republicans into the room. We can solve this in 45 minutes. But politically it behooves both sides to stay dug in. How would you bring them together?

WILLIAMSON: I think Americans need to be aware of what our history is. You know, Ronald Reagan gave eight million people amnesty. And until 1973, if people were undocumented they simply went to a registry office. I want what I want as president is to end one chapter and begin a new one.

I think the only answer is to say to every undocumented person who is not committed a crime, whose committed some crime of transgression or felony against an American citizen, I think there should be a path to citizenship, there should be the kind of efforts that we need to make at the border from this point forward and let us move on to a new chapter of American life.

MACCALLUM: All right, I want to speak to you one -- about another topic that you brought up recently which is reparations. You say that there should be a $200 to $500 billion fund that would be dispersed over 20 years, and you want to have a council that just decides how the money is dispersed. How would that work?

WILLIAMSON: Well, the stipulation on the part of the United States government should be very clear, and that is for purposes of economic and educational renewal. But I believe that within that, although that stipulation is extremely important it must be strictly adhered to, I think that there's a -- there's a moral principle here.

If I owe you money, I don't get to tell you how to spend it. So I believe that it's very important that this reparations council, 30 to 50 people is what I've recommended which obviously should be very carefully chosen, people from academia, culture, politics, etcetera, who are known for their connection to this issue, for their research on this issue, etcetera who make the kinds of decisions whether it has to do with historical black colleges, whether it has to do with housing, whether it has to do -- whatever it has to do whit, but I believe part of the power here is that it would be the black community deciding how they wish to spend that money.

MACCALLUM: Before I let you go -- and you know, you got a lot of attention in the debates as you were speaking out I think a lot of more people became familiar with you. What's your sort of -- you know, what's your cut off point -- you know, at what point would you say -- you know, how do you grow your campaign? How do you get from one or two percent to you know, seven, or eight, or nine, or ten percent? Do you see that happening? What's your vision for the future of your campaign real quick?

WILLIAMSON: Well, listen, if you're in a debate and the only state that doesn't put you as number one Google search the next day is Montana because the Montana governor was there, and you're the one that's talked about all over the place is the breakout, I think that's kind of a sign to continue. So it's a good sign to continue.

MACCALLUM: Are you going to get into the next debate? Will you make that cut off?

WILLIAMSON: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Anybody listening can go to Marianne2020.com and I need about 16,000 more unique donors, even one dollar by August 28th. And yes, I need to get up in the polls. But you know, this is democracy. I think it's healthy for our country. I think it's healthy for the Democratic Party. A lot of voices you had in the Republican Party last time, it was good for you. I think it's good. Let Americans hear. I think it involves more people in the process. I think it's exciting.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Well, Republicans, you're right. They had a lot of candidates on the stage and now you guys have beaten the other side with the 20-something. Thank you for coming in and for taking the questions.

WILLIAMSON: Thank you for having me. Thank you.

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